How to Build an Unforgettable Brand Using Neuroscience with Rande Vick

Do you want your brand to stick in the hearts and minds of your audience? Not just get attention, but be unforgettable?

But you’re frustrated that even your best messaging isn’t gaining the traction it could because it’s not in sync with how the brain actually processes stories? 

Today, we decode the biology behind belief and behavior so you can build a brand story that truly resonates.

You’ll learn from Rande Vick, founder of the Vick Agency in Los Angeles and author of the groundbreaking new book Neurobranding: The Brain-Based Method to Make Your Brand Unforgettable.

With a background in sales, marketing, music, and a growing obsession with behavioral psychology, Rande reveals how to apply neuroscience to build stories that bypass resistance, ignite emotion, and embed your brand into long-term memory.

Tune in and learn how to wire your brand for influence with the science and art of story.

What’s In It For You:

• Being unforgettable is critical because 95% of your audience may not be ready to buy immediately.
• Neurocoupling occurs when listeners emotionally connect with a story.
• Creating sensory memories can enhance brand experiences.
• Understanding subconscious associations is key to effective branding.
• Immersive experiences can create lasting emotional connections.
• AI can enhance brand strategy but should not replace human elements.
• Brands that evoke emotions through engaging storytelling are more memorable.

Chapters:

Links:

• vickagency.com
• Rande Vick on LinkedIn
• NeuroBranding: The Brain-Based Method to Make Your Brand Unforgettable
• The StoryCycle Genie™

Popular Related Episodes You’ll Love:

• How to Measure the Emotional Impact of Your Business Storytelling with Paul Zak
• How the Science of Storytelling Actually Works with Will Storr
• How to Maintain Brand Health to be Your Best Storytelling Self with Dr. Greg Wells

Your Storytelling Resources:

 

 

Connect with me:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/parkhowell/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/BusinessOfStory

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0ssjBuBiQjG9PHRgq4Fu6A

Twitter: https://twitter.com/ParkHowell

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/parkhowell/

Website: https://businessofstory.com/abt/

Transcript of Show

In this conversation, Park Howell and Rande Vick explore the intersection of branding, storytelling, and neuroscience, particularly focusing on Vick’s new book, ‘Neuro Branding.’

They discuss the impact of COVID on Vick’s career, the launch of his agency, and the importance of emotional connections in marketing.

Vick shares insights on neurocoupling and how brands can create memorable experiences that resonate with consumers on a deeper level.

They explore the intricacies of neuro branding, how the subconscious mind influences consumer behavior, and the importance of storytelling in creating memorable brands.

E-commerce brands need immersive experiences that connect emotionally with consumers.

The role of AI in brand strategy is also examined, highlighting the necessity of maintaining a human touch in marketing efforts. Vick shares insights from his new book and offers exclusive resources for listeners.

Park: Welcome to the show, Rande. How are you doing? I’m doing great, man. You and I, I’ve started following you a few years ago after you and I met at Nam North American Music Merchants Association, Zach Phillips was kind enough to invite me out. I did a full day workshop of which you. We’re a part of.

So thank you again for volunteering. It was hard to get volunteers outta that group.

Rande: I can’t believe it. All those performing musicians and nobody wants to get on stage,

Park: That was so much fun. Then I got to do a little, uh, 30 minute segment, the, the day after and after that actually I got some, uh, business outta that myself and training on the, and, but therefore, and marketing and that kind of thing.

So, yeah, it’s great because I started following you, you were always providing lots of incredible content. On LinkedIn in particular, that’s where I see you. ’cause that’s where I am most of the time. And I was super excited for you about a month ago when I saw you introduce your new book. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about the book?

Rande: So I like to say the book came together accidentally because I’ve been doing, uh, branding work for quite a while. Yeah, I’ve been doing, I’ve been in the sales and marketing world for, you know, over 20 years, but there’s a lot of things that happened maybe in the last five years, probably for everybody post covid and, uh, some, some books that I had been reading, some things that had been just kind of forming in my mind, and I started going down this pathway of.

And you, you’re part of this story because it was, it was the storytelling bit. And I know that there’s a million storytellers now, but yeah, that’s probably also changed in the last five years. But I, you know, I read a book that introduced me to the work of Dr. Paul. Zach.

Park: I know Paul, he’s fantastic. Yeah.

Rande: You’ve had him on the show couple times. Yeah. And um. Okay,

Park: A “Love Doctor,” as I recall. He calls himself because he’s the one that really brought oxytocin to the forefront in that love drug that gets triggered when you tell a good story and develop that emotion. Yeah,

Rande: So reading his books, following his, uh, podcast journeys, all those types of things, introduced me to a lot of other folks who were, who were in the either psychology or neuroscience world.

Doing similar work. I think he’s definitely the most well known, but there’s also folks that are studying the way memories are made and the way, you know, the subconscious works and those types of things that I really started delving into. And so I started changing the way I was doing brand work and I started taking lots of notes and eventually I told myself, I have enough notes.

To become some kind of a manifesto. And that ended up becoming neuro branding, which is very practical, more of a workbook than an academic work. But, uh, based on those scientific studies and research that I’ve been following,

Park: Well, how the brain works and how you use story and narrative, especially in the branding world.

As you say in your book that I love is people are fighting for attention, but they’re not paying attention to memorability. It’s one thing to gather that attention, but then how do you keep top of mind? Because I think you have a, a, a percentage in there that of all your marketing out there. Only 5% of your prospects are ready to buy from you, and the others may well buy from you down the road, providing you remain top of mind.

And that’s kinda where the neuro branding thing came from.

Rande: Yeah. And these, these were, you know, this is done from research. I think that, uh. Byron Sharp talked about this 95 5 rule where 95% of your audience that you’re trying to reach out to, they’re not ready. They’re not ready today. They might not be ready tomorrow, and it might not be ready next week or next month, but at some point they’re gonna be looking for what you offer.

And if you’re not. On the top of their memory, if there’s a, if some other brand comes first, then you’re losing out. And so really finding out that was kind of the driver, that 95 5 rule was really interesting to me. And then finding out, well, yeah, mental salience is a thing. How do we capture that as branding folk?

How do we, how do we find the things that are gonna stick? When our, when that 95% is ready to, to flip the switch.

Park: Yeah. So let’s, we’ll get to all of that in just a minute, but I want to go a little bit back in your backstory because I think it kind of, it helps inform who you are and what you’re doing today.

And you began by talking about that wonderful time in all of our lives of Covid and how it impacted us in many ways, and it impacted you in a fairly severe way. With your current employer?

Rande: Yeah. Yes, yes. So, uh, yeah, I had landed the dream job. The funny thing about this is I have been a guitar player since I was 11.

I have been playing fender guitars since probably 16 or 17 years old, and then eventually only fender guitars. I had played fender amplifiers of fender guitar. I was the consummate defender guy, and at some point they found me, I’m not breaking any rules by saying this. They reached out to me on LinkedIn.

They found me on LinkedIn. There was a position that they were interested in filling, and I fit the bill and I was very flattered because this is, this is my brand. What were you doing for them? I was already invested. Yeah. So I went to work for them and, um, you know, they say don’t meet your heroes. Um, I wouldn’t say that.

I just said it was a, it was a, a good run I had, and it was a great company and I love the instruments, but when Covid hit. There was a knee jerk reaction across the board. I think every company dealt with like, what’s gonna happen next? And Fenders was to lay a lot of people off or, or to, uh, temporarily lay them off.

And so I was one of those folks. And, um, yeah, and it, it was a hard hit for me, and I know I don’t wanna spend too much time talking about this, but this leads into where I’m at today because it was a hard hit because I considered myself offender guy. And, uh, being let go, you know, due to covid didn’t feel right to me.

And so I had to like, it was a mental struggle. It was an emotional struggle because I had identified so deeply as offender guide and it made sense for me to have offender business card. And so then I started asking myself, well, why am I so connected to this brand? I worked for lots of great brands. I worked on lots of great brands.

This one in particular, there was something tied deep within. And so that’s what started this, this kind of journey of figuring out, you know, what makes certain brands. So tying to our, to our, you know, emotions and our memories. And here were you

Park: working in marketing for Fender?

Rande: I was actually doing sales.

Park: Mm-hmm.

Rande: It was, it was a sales role.

Park: Yeah. And how long did you work there?

Rande: I. I worked there for 18 months.

Park: Yeah.

Rande: I came from another company that was, you know, it was one of those things where it’s like, man, that was a great company, but I really wanted to work for Fender.

Park: So you had your dream job, your dream brand, and, and you are not alone because a lot of people lost their positions during Covid, but that kinda launched you into what you’re doing now with the Vic Agency.

Rande: Exactly. Yeah. The immediate response was I saw a lot of the folks that I was working with, particularly music stores, who were not prepared to shut the doors and they, they weren’t ready for the digital experience. And so I immediately saw this opportunity to help people get online. Uh, and I was doing it like in the beginning, I mean.

You know, branding is the heart, but like these people just needed, I was building web stores, I was doing all kinds of stuff for people to get them kind of, to stay in business. And that’s how, that’s how the big agency started. And then it just turned into like, you know, you have a deeper issue than you know, your website.

And, uh, started working with a lot of people in that regard.

Park: And does most of your work in the music world or do you reach out into other industries as well?

Rande: Yeah, I started off doing all music stuff and then, you know, funnily, I don’t know how this has worked, but I have a lot of, I have, uh, I’ve worked with three law firms, a lot of professional services.

I just signed a client last week that’s a real estate. He has a real estate office. So it’s been a little bit of professional services and, you know, kind of the balance of music and, and professional services. I’m, I’m not sure how that worked, but they’re, they’re fun. I like working at professional services because I am one.

Mm-hmm. So I feel like there’s a little bit more of like, I understand what you’re, what you need to do, how you need to, to get to where you want to be, but I do, I do love the meeting.

Park: So is it fair to say that as you launched Vic Agency, that you were then like we all do, doing a ton of research and understanding marketing and branding, storytelling.

You a big storyteller and I think probably that comes from your music roots, I’m guessing because every musician I talk with who’s in marketing, including myself, we first. You know, really grew our chops in music, in learning how to tell a story through an instrument or writing a song or whatever, and, and it transfers over so easily and powerfully into the marketing communications world.

The storytelling world. Did that get you going in your line of work, and then you needed to do a deeper dive into understanding why this worked on our brains?

Rande: Yeah, I, I mean, I’m a songwriter and I have, you know. I tell a story when I was growing up, when I was a kid, my parents were listening to the Eagles and Freedom’s, Clearwater Revival and those types of bands, and there’s already an element of storytelling in those songs.

And, and I loved, I loved trying to figure out what they were saying. And then I had my, I tell the story a lot, but I had my, my best friend was her parents listened to country music. And the first time I heard Kenny Rogers, I was like, oh, let’s look like I, I heard the coward of the county and I almost wept.

Mm-hmm. And I was like, a little child, you know? And so that idea, that storytelling thing was, it runs deep. And then, you know, I, I think about every time, you know. Paul, Zack tells a story about the Million Dollar Baby movie and how he bawled in the movie theater. I, I, I did that when I was watching a Little House on the Prairie when I was Laura Ingles.

So, yeah, I mean, that storytelling thing was, was deep, uh, rooted in me and now I love listening to song. I love listening to songwriters who know how to tell a good story and yeah, absolutely. Then, you know, coming over to this side of things, I wanted to, to read. Everything in the marketing world. I read so many books in, you know, 2019, 2020, 2021, about storytelling and some of those, and like I said, uh, some of those books started to talk about Paul Zack’s work and that research.

And that’s kind of what spun me in the direction I’m at. And I, I, I wanna say too, like you, if you’ve looked at my book, you might have noticed, like I put, the way I put strategy together is. Is really very similar based on an A B T’s idea. It’s the, it’s an, but therefore, but it’s, but the way I’ve done it is like, here’s, here’s the status, but it’s also the storytelling principles, right?

Here’s the status quo, here’s what could change and here’s what it looks like when changed. Those are those, that’s how I built strategy. So, uh, it’s, and it, because it’s, it sticks and I learned that from you, and I’ve learned that from your book.

Park: Oh, well I’m glad to hear that I had a bit of an impact on you there, Ann.

Well, let’s dive into neuro branding. So tell us what it’s about and how it works.

Rande: We could talk about this for a long, long time, but I’ll break it down into the three core principles that I think are, are most important. And that is that, um, the brands that focus on things like emotional or immersive experiences, brands that have subconscious tie-ins or associations.

And brands that understand how to tell a story in the way of neuro coupling here, here he has on his idea of, of how your brains sync up when you’re, when you’re hearing a story that somebody’s telling, not just any story. ’cause not all stories do that, but those stories that are told right and told, well definitely make us think, oh, I’ve been there.

I know what that feels like. I can understand what that person is going through. For example, if I said, if I told a, a story that said. There was a woman at a cafe in the early morning drinking her coffee, scrolling through her newsfeed, and she looked at the time and said, oh my gosh, I’m gonna missed the bus.

And in a hurry, she stands up. She spills coffee all over her white blouse and she runs out the door and she sees the bus and she says, oh, great. I can catch the bus. And then she realizes she forgot her bag with her laptop under the cafe table. She runs back in to get it and comes out to see the bus leaving.

And now we don’t know this woman’s name, where she works, where she was going. We don’t know anything about her, but we’ve all been late and have that feeling of being like, oh no, I don’t wanna be late and I’m gonna be late. That feeling is that the part of the story that we’re gonna connect with and neuroco with, and those are the types of stories that, uh, the brands who understand neuro branding.

Tell. And how do you define neuro coupling? So it’s, uh, I mean, I know there’s some, uh, I know there’s a little bit of controversy around, around this because I’ve heard some neuroscientists say, this is just myth, this doesn’t happen. But the continued work of theory, Hasan from Princeton, has shown that this is something that is.

You know, I don’t know how, I don’t know how to explain it. I’m not a scientist, so make that clear. I’m science adjacent, but I do study the research quite a bit, and so I know that, that neuro coupling is, is again, when, when you’re hearing a story and you feel the feelings or you, you cry in a movie or you hear a song that leaves you speechless.

That’s the, that’s the effect of neuro coupling. That’s when your brain is. You’re producing hormones that, that make you feel. And so that’s, that’s how I think of it.

Park: So for an example, maybe, and this just happened to me yesterday, we just got back from a long trip and I, you know, not myself, my brain was, you know, hours different from where we came from and I was in kind of a hectic mode and I was running, doing a couple things and not in my usual, somewhat usual calm space and outta nowhere clicks on, uh, Billy Joel, and she’s always a woman to me.

And just those opening piano strains just settled me down. Everything just went, ah. And I remember listening to that first verse and go, dang, that’s a good song. And then I went on to do something else, and it’s a song I hadn’t heard in a long time. It just, for whatever reason, has not crossed my path, but it did have this visceral, immediate, visceral impact on me.

Yeah. And is that kind of what you’re talking about? Yeah,

Rande: that’s

Park: exactly

Rande: it. That’s exactly what it does. So, and you might’ve heard another song that gave you anxiety or produced some kind of, you know, feeling of fear because that’s all, these are all the, you know, the places in our brain between, you know, the amygdala and the hippocampus that like, they produce this, this feeling of I know what that’s like and it’s either something calming or it’s, you know, a lot of brands will, will use fomo.

And, you know, and it, and it works. So the fear of missing out. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Fear of missing out. The fear aspect is, you know, your, your whole brain is wired to, to, to survive. So anything that’s fear based, I. Get our attention.

Park: Oh yeah. Just go doomed scroll. Yeah, yeah. Just listen to the news. Read the newspaper.

It’s all fear-based. Everything is fear-based in that respect. So take us to an example. Maybe it’s a company you’ve worked with, brand that has used and you’ve intentionally brought neuro coupling into their marketing and or storytelling.

Rande: There’s a musical instrument store down here in Southern California where I’m at, that I’ve been working with, and when they came to me, it was because like a lot of people, especially in brick and mortar businesses, they’re feeling the, you know, again, especially since Covid, the online pinch, the people are shopping online.

People during Covid learned to get their groceries from ordering on their phone, and no one’s leaving their house anymore, so. So, uh, this was a really interesting conundrum for me because I’m like, well, how do we get people to get off their couch and come in? And so what we did is we started with media because this is, I mean, this is, again, people can, can scroll and find a story from the owner of this company who’s been around.

This company’s been around since the late seventies. They’re not new to the game, but this is new for them. So to hear him tell the story of their beginnings, their origin story, and then to get a glimpse of the way he has this passion still after all these years for music. And he, he, you know, he tells it, and I, this is not scripted.

I didn’t tell him what to say. I just sit down and said, this is what we’re going for. I mean, here, tell me, tell me your story. And to hear him talk about like, you know, like, especially I think coming out of isolation, he is like, it’s one thing to play your instrument in your room or in your, you know, music room by yourself.

But when you get with three other, three or four other people, he said there’s nothing else like it. So this, this video, and then we did another video with a, with a customer coming the customer journey about how when he was a kid, he could only afford, you know, beater guitars and. He couldn’t really ever play a really nice guitar.

And now he is not trying to be a rock star anymore. He is in his late forties, but now he can afford the really nice guitars and he talks about finding those guitars at this music store. And so these kinds of, these, these story ideas are, are part of that strategy. And then the other thing was like really sensory things.

Like this is memory stuff, right? We’re we wanna create memories so. Setting the store up in like little jam sections so you can come in and play with your buddies. Having it so that when you immediately walk through the doors, you’re getting the scent of leather and wood. And we bought little centers like this is, this is creating memories.

And you know, I tell people the story all the time too. When, uh, when you, your first experience with a dog, when you’re a child. If that dog is aggressive and tries to bite you, you might have a fear of dogs for the rest of your life. However, if you, your first impression of the dog is that it’s warm and cuddly.

You might have a love for dogs for the rest of your life. Now you can overcome those things, but those are immediate subconscious associations that we make. So when you walk into a store and you smell the way that store smells, that’s a sensory memory. And those types of, those are the types of things that I’m working with people I’m building.

Park: I think it’s interesting starting with the music world, which totally makes sense. And here you’ve got a, you know it, it’s a more romantic business, right? Because you got all these instruments and it creates wonderful music and people really connect emotionally with music. But you also said that you work with law firms.

I. Yeah. So how do you bring the same sort of thinking to a very logic driven, reason driven law firm and get themselves outta their own way to become, you know, and create that emotional connection?

Rande: Yeah, so I’ll tell you the story. One of the stories of the law firms one, one that I had maybe the most emotional resonance with myself, it’s a law firm, a boutique firm that does.

Family law. So again, you might be seeing, oh, well that’s also emotional. But the way they had presented themselves was, we win. We win cases. Here’s case studies. You know, we’re experts in our field. We’ve been doing this for 20 years, those types of things. And so immediately running them through what I call my neuro brandand method, I understood like this is something that needs.

There, there’s no emotional connection to, you know, how many, how many cases you’ve won. And so we started changing the messaging and the positioning to be more about protecting the things that you love more about guidance through the hardest time of your life and telling a different story completely.

And we saw, we saw the phone ring, we saw in, you know, their website Ping. We saw a change almost within, you know, two or three months almost. Fast. So just being able to tell a different story and a better story. And that’s a hard situation. Those are, those are not, you know, those are hard things to wanna market.

But really knowing the, you know, getting to know the team, getting to know the staff, getting to know the fact that they really do care about their, the people they’re helping, but the way they’re presenting it was like, we’re, we’re kind of bulldogs and we’re gonna win for you. And that’s a different, that’s a different story.

Park: Well, I’ve got a, a resource for you, Rand, and all of you listening out there on the legal side in storytelling, my friend who lives in North Scottsdale, uh, Doug Passen is like an internationally recognized sentence mitigation. Attorney. And what that means, of course, is everybody he deals with is guilty.

They are criminals. They are guilty of something and they’ve had the book thrown at them sometimes to just larges ways, like they did something that maybe they should spend five years in jail, but they got 25 years in jail. And he goes in and he. You know, appeals to the judge and the jury, the sentencing folks, using their backstory of what got ’em to where they were.

Not making excuses for them, but saying there are larger circumstances here besides just the cut and dried, yes, they’re guilty and here’s what they did, and that’s not good, and they should pay for it. Let’s take a look at the backstory of what got him here in the first place. And then we also know then that if we can get them out earlier and train them up, that these are good, productive individuals.

And he has used storytelling. And this idea, I think of as you were talking about with that neuro coupling so effectively that both the New York Times, and I think it was The Atlantic, came out and wrote stories saying he was being manipulative. And he goes, well, everyone’s manipulative, but I’m not being, uh, uh, negatively manipulative.

I’m trying to help these people out that yes, they’re guilty and yes, they should serve time, but not to the extent that you’ve told them. And he got so much focus on his work that even The Simpsons did an episode on sentence mitigation, video storytelling based off of his work. And, uh, that’s incredible.

I’ve had Doug on my show a couple times, episode, what is it? Number 180 2 and episode number 3 41. And 3 41 in particular talks about, or he shares how he uses the A BT in storytelling, in his sentence mitigation work.

Rande: That’s fantastic.

Park: Yeah. So it plays, that’s what you’re saying, finding emotion and bringing it in, but it’s fact based emotion that he’s going with.

He’s not telling lies, he’s manipulating in the right ways, you know, in, in, in service of these people that, you know, our Yeah, they’re not bad people. They’ve just have made some bad decisions.

Rande: Yeah, no, that’s great. That’s fantastic. And that is the, the power of, you know, we’re talking about storytelling and, yeah.

And this, you know, the emotional hooks that, uh, that drive our behavior.

Park: Well, you talked about the 95 5 rule and, and this neuro coupling. What else in your research that really struck you has made it into your new book?

Rande: I. You’ll see the work of Paul Zack in my work. I’ve quoted him quite a bit, but there’s also this, this is, this comes from some self-work, like I was saying, like being laid off and like having all these internal struggles.

Some self-work that I did through the books and through the research of Dr. Ts Gibson. Who, uh, doesn’t do anything. She has nothing to do with branding or marketing. She’s literally just helping people get through subconscious blocks. And so that’s when I started to to, you know, she says, you know, your, your conscious will can never overpower your subconscious will.

Right? So there’s, there’s work that people can do, obviously to make their subconscious, but your subconscious beliefs are their beliefs. It doesn’t speak language. It speaks in. Abstract. It speaks in pictures maybe, or colors. So those types of things are fascinating. So when we’re talking about logos, right, and yeah, I know logo is not your brand, but when you see the golden arches, it gives you a feeling, you know, those there, when you see the swoosh, you know what it means.

Like there, there’s. There are things that, that the subconscious identifies. And so that part of it I think was really fascinating, uh, fascinating part of my journey and it made it into the book as far as how, like, you know, the smell of leather and wood when you walk into a music store. Those types of things I think are very fascinating and, uh, and, and.

Probably undervalued in our work.

Park: Mm-hmm. Well, you talk about that, uh, subconscious, overriding the conscious mind. Many people have talked about that. Uh, who’s the gentleman writing or thinking slow and fast? Yes. Yes. Maybe I have that exactly. Backwards thinking. Fast and slow. He just passed away by the way.

I, I, who’s the gentleman? I’m trying to think of what’s his name. Um, it’s a famous guy.

Rande: Yeah, of course. I read the book and I think I even quoted him in mine, but I can’t remember his name.

Park: Well, it’s because I just brought it up. We can’t think of it. It’ll come to me here in a second. Uh, I just learned that he did an assisted suicide in, I think Denmark.

I. Oh. Um, at 91, because he felt like he was used up, he was done, he had done everything he wanted to do and felt like the needless, you know, pitfalls of old aging wasn’t for him.

Speaker 3: Wow. But, uh,

Park: anyways, you know, they, they talk about the subconscious and the, and the conscious mind, and it’s that elephant writer.

Metaphor that your subconscious is the elephant and the elephant can pretty much go anywhere it wants. And that conscious logic driven brain is the writer. It’s this little person sitting on top. Directing the elephant and quite often can be very effective in directing the elephant. But boy, once you get tired, fatigued, uh, hangry, uh, whatever out of your element, all of a sudden that elephant of the subconscious takes over.

Rande: Absolutely. Yeah. So, so learning those types of things. I mean, you know, there are, uh, I don’t know if you’ve seen, uh, Dr. Zach’s apps, his, uh, like his immersion app or his, uh, I think it’s called six. Oh yeah. We had him on the show

Park: talking about that. And by the way, it’s Dr. Daniel Kahneman. That’s the guy that I couldn’t come up with.

That’s who it is. Yeah. But yeah, so go ahead. We, I had Paul on talking about his immersion app, which is about. Measuring people’s brain waves and how immersive they are. And he first started with movie trailers and trying to determine which were good mo movie trailers and which weren’t depending on how people were immersed in that short little story.

Rande: It’s fascinating work and he even, I mean, talking about, you know, were in the music world, he’s talking about how they, they were able to predict with great accuracy the songs that would become popular on Spotify. By using their immersion technology. So those, those types of predictors are just fascinating because we, we have, uh, you know, there’s of course outliers, but we all have these things that trigger us in big ways.

So finding out what movie trailers are gonna work on people, or, you know what I mean, out of a, a series of the same, from the same movie even, or what song is gonna connect with the, with the largest audience. Those are fascinating pieces to, uh, to study and to learn about. Yeah.

Park: Yeah. I had Paul, I just looked it up while you’re talking on show number 3 83 in case you’re interested, I’ll put it in the show notes talking Absolutely.

About that immersive thing. So what else will people get from your book and how they can apply it to really create this neuro branding and become the unforgettable, very memorable brand for their prospects?

Rande: I think that, uh, pardon me. I think that if you. Live through the book, you’ll see that it, like I said, it’s built very, uh, workbook alike.

So there’s exercises at the end of a lot of the chapters that we’ll say, Hey, this is time. You know, you just talked about this, or you just read about this, or you just learned about this. Let’s apply it to your business. And so throughout, I think those, those types of things were really help people plug in what they’re doing and, and see what’s working.

There’s one fascinating thing, you know, when I was working, for example, the music store. And we can go back there for just a minute because one of the things I did is I walked in there and I was like, you know what? You know what’s immersive? You know what is filled? And creates memories time and time again.

You know what some of the best storytellers on the world are? It’s Disney, right? It’s Disneyland. You can’t go to Disneyland. You can’t. You can stand in a four hour wait to get on the rise of the resistance Star Wars ride. You’re entertained because they have things the whole way through. It might not be the main thing, but uh, according to Dr.

Zach’s research, you’re still immersed walking through the line because they have, you know, alien languages written on the wall and things beeping and lights flashing, and you’re constantly going, what’s this about? Now when I walk into any store, I think that how can we immerse this storefront or, you know, this office or whatever it might be, to, to create those types of immersive, subconscious, uh, emotional memories.

They do, they work really well. So I, I haven’t been to Disneyland for a while, but I remember the last time I went going on that particular ride and waiting in that long line, I couldn’t wait the whole time. I was like, it was just, you know, you’re anticipating the outcome the whole time and those types of things.

So walking through a store and, and walking through the zones, like here’s, you know, maybe the beginner instruments and then. Step up into this, and here’s the aspirational wall with all the lights shining on it. I was thinking about when I was a kid and I was, you know, I used to work at a guitar store when I was like too young to officially work, but the man was, he was kind and let me tune guitars and dust things off and he paid me a little bit, but he, uh, one time I walked in and I was must, I was probably 13 and I saw on his counter this guitar, and up until this point I was playing a Gibson.

Paul that I had bought. Saved my allowance a lot. And I walked in and I saw this guitar up on the counter, and it really seemed like every light in the store was shining on this one guitar. And it was a Telecaster Deluxe, a 1972 Telecaster Deluxe by Fender and Mocha Brown. And I remember thinking like that’s the best of all worlds.

It has a Stratocaster Headstock, it’s got a Telecaster body, but it’s configured the two pickups and the, and the tones and the volume. All this, I’m nerding out. I know, but they’re like, uh. You know, like Les Paul, it’s like the best of all worlds combined. I was 13 and when I was 23, maybe 10 years later. I found one and now I can afford it and I bought it.

Those that stuck with me for 10 years. That was the guitar I wanted. I couldn’t afford it when I was 13,

Park: but, and when you found it, it probably transported you back to that very moment of walking that music store and seeing it on the wall and saying, that’s what I want. Exactly. Right.

Rande: And so that’s mentals, that’s what we’re talking about.

That’s, that’s digging it into your, uh, your, your memory so that when it’s, when you’re ready to buy it. Mm-hmm.

Park: Yeah.

Rande: That’s what comes up. So much

Park: of our work, as you had pointed out too, because of Covid now is happening online. I. Vast majority of my work is online training in the podcast, and, and I don’t do as much keynote speaking anymore.

I actually don’t really care about jumping on airplanes anymore, so it’s right here and I’m like a lot of business people out there. How can you, I. Do successful neuro branding, neuro coupling, when the majority of your work is like we’re doing right now, looking at each other on Riverside FM online, and we aren’t in that immersive one-on-one experience or walking into a storefront.

Rande: Yeah, so it is different and there is, you know, there’s product based categories, there are service-based categories, and then there’s kind of e-commerce on its own doing its thing. And it’s killing it. I mean, at this point, it’s killing it. So the problem that I, I have one client that I’m working with now is that they’re eclipsed by some of the, you know, there’s Amazon, there’s like, how do you compete?

And so you gotta figure, you know, this is, this is part of my process, but also looking at like, what, what can you provide that they can’t? And it’s not gonna be, you’re not gonna win on price and you’re not gonna win on speed of delivery. So it’s gotta be something else. And so what we talk about then is going into these immersive storytelling bits, the pieces that make it personal, because Amazon is not that.

The, uh, the, in the delivery process, the added value of what I, what you’re going to send along with the product that they bought. You’re, there’s, there’s several key components. It’s a little bit tricky because there’s some big players in that field. But there’s, uh, but it’s still, still growing. E-commerce is still a growing, you know, the growing, uh, sector.

So I think there’s a lot of great things that we can do. Revolve, mostly revolved around storytelling and video and those types of things, but there’s also more experiential things that they can be doing too.

Park: Like they have some examples.

Rande: So I’ll give you an example of, I. This is a, maybe a silly one, but it’s the first thing that came to my head, Sweetwater, in my, in my industry, right?

In the musical instruments industry is kind of the king e-commerce. They have a, they have a store, but they have one store, and it’s in Indiana. So if you’re not in Indiana, you’re buying the stuff online and they’re the, they’re the king bin. They’re the ones you go to because they’ve created an online experience.

You can go to almost any product and they’ll, you’ll see one of their product specialists telling the story in a video of how great this product is. Excuse me. And then if you decide to buy that product, you’ll get it delivered. You’ll get follow up calls from that, you know, from your dedicated account specialist.

You’ll get a bag of candy inside the box along with a catalog of other things you might be interested in because you bought this. It’s, you know, it’s very fine tuned machine. And uh, those are the types of things I think that people can be looking at to win in this industry.

Park: Well, and with AI coming out too, especially in the online, you know, digital world and it gets to really promoting mediocrity and you know, some people are really relying on it just to write their stuff and whatever.

Mark Schafer, who is a brilliant, brilliant marketing mind and a guy that I really admire and follow quite a bit, he’s got a new book out called Audacious, is really about pitting humans against AI and his whole premises. You’ve gotta stand out and do silly things. You said, you know, as you set up that story, well, it was kind of silly, but it came top of mind because maybe there’s some silliness to it.

Yeah, and he had in his newsletter today that I really liked. He goes, the winners are gonna be those that can prove that they’re human. I. That means everything’s not perfect, that you’re seeing the chinks in the armor. Armor the vulnerability. You’re having fun. You’re being a little bit goofy. You’re sending out bags of candy.

Yep. Things that bots can’t do. Yep. And if you’re looking for an immersive experience, those are the things I think that tactile, you know, experience, whether they’re on your website or they’re receiving something, has a major impact on ’em.

Rande: That’s brilliant. I mean that’s, and that’s really it. I mean, I think at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter the industry you’re in, we’re all in the people business.

And so people like talking to people, people like interacting with people. So again, um, you know, I haven’t done much video. I. Mostly because I have a face for radio. But, but I, but there is that, you know, there’s something connecting about that. When, when I had the, the owner of the guitar store tell his story, and I’ve done this not just with him, other clients would tell that, that origin story or the thing that makes you tick story, the thing that keeps you going in this industry when it’s so hard right now.

Those stories of resiliency and, and, uh, you know, and the passion, I think make all the difference. And those are things that we can’t get from ai.

Park: Yeah. Well, and I have been venturing into the AI world with our new story Cycle Genie and I ran your brand for the Vic Agency and your new book, neuro Branding through it.

And in just under five minutes it created a report based on our story cycle system that says here’s how Rand and his agency brand and his book are showing up in the world again based off of our story cycle. What did you think of what I sent you? You didn’t ask for it, you didn’t know it was coming and it just showed up.

Rande: I will be honest, I have been listening to your show, so I was hoping it was gonna show up and Okay. And it did. And, um, man, it doesn’t disappoint. So we’re at some point we’re gonna have to talk about like, you know, the, the, the world of, of AI and all of this neuro branding stuff. But this was actually really good and I told you, I think I told you where I met, maybe I.

I read through this, I read through this entire assessment with a giant smile on my face because I was like, how, how does it know? I was said, know this, and there’s some really great things in it. So yeah, we can, we can talk about it for sure. I didn’t change, I didn’t make any changes. I haven’t had time.

Park: Yeah, and, and this wasn’t meant for changes, but it’s meant to say, here, how is how you’re showing up in the world per our. Again, story cycle system. And it’s not meant to be the cure all, it’s just meant to give you a foundation of the story, strategy and elements that you’re currently using. And it does really ends up doing three things.

It, uh, highlights gaps potentially in your communication. If they’re not showing up here, it means they’re not. Being, they’re not showing up in your communications, your marketing, your website, it, um, inspires you and shows you different ways to talk about your brand that maybe you hadn’t considered before.

Because we all are so close to our own brands, it’s kind of hard to see the forest for the trees or as they say, we’re inside the jar and everyone’s reading the label on the outside that we can’t see with a brand helps reveal what’s on that label to you, and the idea is just to help you. Then take this as the foundation.

Doing 80% of the heavy lifting that typically takes months and months and months of research to do, gives it to you in minutes, and then you bring your humanity to it to make it immersive.

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Park: So well, the question for you then for immersion is about. And, uh, uh, an element of emotion and the element that I’m always striving for with this particular process of the story cycle genie is that of being enthralled, which means the fascinated attention on something.

And isn’t that really what every brand wants, is the fascinated attention on itself, but to also be enthralled by the surprising outcomes it delivers to you. Did you feel enthralled in this process? And if so, what were some of the surprises that you got in it?

Rande: So, yeah, I did feel enthralled. Like I said, it was just, you know, elation I think is the word that came to my mind, but, and there are some, there’s some good, you know, uh, I think I’m probably my own worst customer I, when it comes to branding work.

So I did see some things written here that I was like, oh, I, I didn’t mention anywhere that I work with musical instruments, you know, industry. That didn’t show up on this report because I’m not talking about it on my website. So that’s, that was a great gap for me seeing those kind of, you know, those loose ends.

I didn’t talk about working with law firms or, uh, professional services either. So tho that was a really big one for me. That was the biggest gap that I think I saw. But that was super helpful because now I know I need to go back and, you know, make sure I’m communicating to the right people, obviously.

But you know what I really liked, I really liked the, uh, the unique value proposition.

Park: Would you

Rande: read that for us? It says, uh, brands that haunt not just get noticed,

Park: brands that haunt, not hunt, but haunt your brain, huh?

Rande: Yes. Yeah, and I think that was fantastic. That’s not a word that I would’ve picked, but.

What a picture.

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

Park: Let’s read the positioning statement, and I’ll read it to you, Rand, and you tell me how accurate you think it is currently, and if you’d make any changes on it. So here’s what the Genie revealed from your website. The Vic Agency stands apart from traditional marketing agencies by focusing on the neuroscience of brand memorability rather than just visibility.

The agency emphasizes creating brands that haunt co consumers, forming deep neural imprints that trigger emotional responses and make brands psychologically impossible to ignore. Their approach bridges the gap between branding theory and practical brain based strategies.

Rande: That’s beautiful.

Park: Is that written anywhere on your website?

Rande: Not, not exactly like that. No. That’s, that’s that’s fantastic.

Park: So it’s a, it’s a, has condensed maybe other thoughts and insights throughout your site and, and boiled it down to that position statement. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Rande: yeah. It’s fantastic. So, I mean. You gotta put a lot of people out of work.

Park: No, not necessarily.

We might even be bringing a lot more work to a lot more agencies like yours out there because you and your people don’t have to spend the months it takes to pull this stuff together. Uh, you can literally do it in minutes. Okay? Give it a day or two when you’re gonna be tweaking some things or here, but then you can activate it immediately.

So you can bring this to market within a week versus six months down the road.

Rande: Yeah. And, and to be honest, I was, I was kidding when I said that. I actually have already wondered how I’m gonna get the link and start using this in the work that I do. Yeah. So I, I think that you’re right. It’s gonna be, it’s a fantastic tool and, uh, you know, it, I you said 80%, I’d probably say it’s, it’s probably more than that, but it’s great work and, uh, it’s a what a time saver.

Park: Well, thanks. And you know, we talked about the, I mentioned the three things up top. We talked about the gap, which you identified that you haven’t really come out and focused your communication on the music industry, even though you work in some others. But that’s your, your main go-to it sounds like. Yeah.

You were inspired by the unique value proposition and even how the position statement together, uh, came together. But then there’s also the third element of confirming. Some things you’re already doing validating the way you’re already communicating about your brand. So you smile and you go, yeah, that’s right.

I nailed that right there. Can you point to a couple of those validation triggers in the output that it gave you?

Rande: There is, um, I mean, I think overall that’s the feeling that it was like, okay, it, like that’s how I’m showing up and that’s, those are the things I wanna be known for. Uh, so that was already just, I think that was across the whole document.

And one of the things that I. I’ll give you one thing I liked and one thing that I’m like, is that really the, the one thing I liked is the, uh, you break up the, uh, here says the heroes in your brand story or your primary audiences, and you gave me three different audiences. And uh, and ways to communicate and I thought that was fantastic.

Park: And those are the brand transformation seekers? Yes. Audience number two, strategic growth leaders and audience number three, brand revitalization executives.

Rande: Exactly. Yeah, that was fantastic work. That was something that I haven’t seen or you know, to be honest, that’s something that I haven’t put together before.

So that was really cool. That was really cool to see. And the other thing that I was like, am I really a sage? Mm-hmm. I’m not really, I understand exactly how that comes across because you, especially probably as the neuro branding guy, this becomes like you’re the expert or whatever. But I, um, the funny thing about that is that like, I’m a huge Star Wars nerd too, so I was like, yeah, I could.

I could be o OB one.

Park: Well, and the thing about this too is again, I just ran it not, you know, totally being intimate with your brand, of course, and so forth. It just gave you its initial output. But what you would then do Rand as the brand or say, okay, I like the sage, but I don’t know if it’s my primary.

Archetype. I’d like to move that to a secondary. Maybe I wanna move magician up. Do that for me. And then I would like you to rethink sage. I liked some of the personalities, but now make it more associated with music and or Star Wars. And it will go in and it will reframe. That personality of sage and explain to you why it did and how it relates to your brand.

So this is not a static document. It is the foundation for you then to go in and tell the genie. You know, its wishes are your commands basically, and you can command it to change and tweak and do anything you want. And then in the end you will have the overall foundational brand story, strategy, and the story elements.

Exactly how you want them.

Rande: Phenomenal. It’s great work. Yeah, that’s the game.

Park: That’s the game plan. And you know what, r just sign up for our launch. Like everybody else, just go to business of story.com/story cycle dash genie, or I’ll put you in there and um, we’ll send that out. And, you know, we’ve got some bonuses which include free access to the abts of Storytelling micro training course, which is 120.

$5 value. You get a digital copy of the Narrative Gym Four Business, which is your A BT Guide to craft them and also give you a digital copy of My Brand Be Witchery book that is all about the story cycle system. And finally, you are going to get like 20 or 75% off the launch. Of the genie, which will be here.

I mean, anytime we are on the last 2% of getting it dialed in. So yeah, check it out@businessesstory.com slash story cycle genie.

Speaker 3: Alright. Yeah, I can’t wait. What your Out.

Park: Well, and now you have, um, offering a giveaway for our listeners today about your new book. What is that?

Rande: I do, I, I put together, so there’s a, a workbook that goes hand in hand with, it’s called the Quick start Guide neuro branding, the Quick Start Guide.

And so that’ll walk you through and it actually is broken into three quadrants. So if you are a product based business, a service based business, or an eCommerce brand, there are specific exercises in that. Going through the three, the three principles that we talked about today.

Park: Yeah. And where do people find that?

Rande: Well, I’ll send it to you. You can put it in the show notes.

Park: Yep.

Rande: Um, it’s an exclusive for your listeners, so how, however you wanna disputing We’ll, we’ll make it out. Yeah,

Park: email me that link and I’ll definitely put it in the show notes and promote it out there when we, when we promote your show. I know the last thing I was gonna mention in, uh, reading on some of the promotion for your book, you also talk about the fantastic positioning work of April Dunford.

Yes. So she’s had a big impact. Do you know Rand that she was on our show last week, so you are the follow up show to April’s appearance.

Rande: I didn’t know that. I feel so special now. Yeah, she’s Cheryl. Work is incredible. She’s, she’s a brilliant thinker. It’s great.

Park: She really is. And I, when it comes down to brand positioning, especially for tech brands in the B2B world, yeah, she is marvelous.

It was a really fun episode. Very cool. Yeah, I’m looking forward to that now too. Yeah. Well, thanks, ran. I appreciate your time today. I hope to see you at NAM next year, the National Association of Music Merchandisers. I gotta reach out to, to, uh, Zach and get back out there and do some more story training.

Rande: That’d be great. That’d be great. Yeah, I’m looking forward to it.

Park: Well, thanks for being here, dude.

Rande: Thank you, man.

Park: Thanks for listening and sharing this episode with anyone you know who would benefit by dialing in their brand story, not only making it attention grabbing, but unforgettable. Neuro branding is really an amazing new science, and if we can help you grow your brand, then you know where the place to go is.

It’s business of story.com/story cycle dash genie. That’s right. We are about to launch our brand new AI-driven story cycle genie so that you can craft your amazing, unforgettable brand story strategy in minutes. Not months at a fraction of the cost of the old traditional way of branding and with proven results.

So you will hit the mark precisely where you want it and where it needs to be. So check it out, businesses story.com/story cycle dash. Jeanie, you’re gonna love it. Join me next week when I will have another amazing story artist right here for you, like Rand Vic. And until then, remember that the most potent story you will ever tell is the story you tell yourself.

So make it not only epic, make it unforgettable. Thanks so much for listening.

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