Your Story is Your Strategy with Renee Frojo

How to Put Your Story in Service to Your Business

You are dedicated to building your brand and know how important brand storytelling is to generate the personal, professional and revenue growth you desire.

But you feel like marketing your business has become a grind.

Like the joy that once fueled your entrepreneurial journey has vanished behind funnels, frameworks, and fatigue?

Renee Frojo, former journalist turned brand storytelling coach, helps service-based entrepreneurs like you rediscover your purpose and passion by using your most underutilized asset: your personal story.

Renee’s mantra is simple but powerful: your story is your strategy. She shares how to turn real-life moments, your doubts, your wins, even your buyer’s remorse, into brand-building gold that creates emotional resonance and trust with your audience.

Whether you’re a coach, consultant, or creative entrepreneur, this episode will help you simplify your content strategy, strengthen your message, and fall back in love with your brand.

Renee began her career as a Capitol Hill journalist before becoming a business reporter in San Francisco, where she covered startups, retail, and food.

She later launched A Good Reputation, a brand storytelling consultancy helping solopreneurs and mission-driven businesses find clarity through narrative.

Her thought leadership has been featured in the BBC, and she’s known for her practical, emotionally intelligent approach to authentic marketing.

Renee equips her clients to connect with the right audience, inspire action, and amplify their success

What’s In It For You:

Your story is your strategy.
Renee helps entrepreneurs simplify branding by aligning mission, values, and audience emotion through strategic storytelling.
Vulnerability creates connection.
By openly sharing her own struggles, Renee shows how personal stories build trust and deepen resonance with your audience.
Start small, test fast.
From one LinkedIn post, Renee launched a successful beta cohort—proof that experimentation beats perfection.
Be a meaning maker in an AI world.
The brands that stand out will be the ones helping people make sense of the noise through authentic, emotional storytelling.
Reignite your business with your own story.
Renee empowers service-based solopreneurs to put their story in service to themselves—and rediscover joy in their work.

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction and Background
02:31 From Journalism to Storytelling Coaching
12:42 The Power of Personal Storytelling
22:17 Building a Business Through Storytelling
32:14 Navigating Doubts and Vulnerability
42:07 Finding Purpose in Storytelling
51:58 Conclusion and Future Plans

Popular Related Episodes You’ll Love:

Your Storytelling Resources:

Connect with me:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/parkhowell/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/BusinessOfStory

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0ssjBuBiQjG9PHRgq4Fu6A

Twitter: https://twitter.com/ParkHowell

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/parkhowell/

Website: https://businessofstory.com/abt/

Transcript of Show:

Park Howell (00:01.154)
Good morning, Renee. Welcome to the show.

Renee (00:03.99)
Thanks for having me, Park. I am so excited to be here.

Park Howell (00:05.61)
And you, well, I’m excited to talk to you. You’re coming to us from the Bay Area. Does that mean you are a technologist like everybody seems to be in the Bay Area?

Renee (00:17.428)
No, I actually have an aversion to those people. No, just kidding. No, I’m kidding. No, I come to the Bay Area by way of Auburn, Alabama, spent some time in Boston and then DC, and then I traveled around the world with my ex-husband, and we landed in the Bay Area after that around the world trip, simply because we had some friends who were generous enough to put us up for a month while we looked for jobs and rebuilt our life in the States after this gap year.

Park Howell (00:20.11)
Why so?

Park Howell (00:45.216)
and you liked it so much you decided to stick around.

Renee (00:48.034)
Well, the story was really that his job kept us here and I am glad I stuck around though. Yeah. I feel like I finally really put down roots because the Bay area is really, I like to call it the land of a thousand day trips. Really there’s, there’s just so much opportunity and things to experience beyond San Francisco. But yeah, sure enough, I did find myself in a little bit of the startup tech scene in my, in my career here.

So, yeah.

Park Howell (01:18.348)
Now, wait a minute, ex-husband and aversion to techies. Was he in technology? Is that where this is all coming from? Are we digging up old bones?

Renee (01:27.634)
Well, you know, my whole shtick is personal storytelling. So sure, why not? No, no, he’s a he’s a biotech investor. So I mean, yes, so technically some tech, some finance. But I have talked recently sort of unpacking what I think ultimately led to the the end of my marriage and

how it’s actually been a point of real inspiration and learning that has fueled a lot of my work and the work that I do today and how I show up publicly and build this personal brand to fuel my business in a way that’s been not only really effective in terms of business building, but also really personally fulfilling.

There’s a story there and I unpacked it recently in my latest newsletter and it got a big response as I think sharing a little bit more depth typically does. So, yeah.

Park Howell (02:31.16)
Yeah, that whole vulnerability play that people talk so much about, but it’s so hard to do. But you started out as a journalist before you’ve gotten into the business storytelling coaching world. And let’s talk about that and how did that lead into your story is your strategy framework. I’m really curious to hear about that.

Renee (02:35.82)
that hard to

Mm-hmm.

Renee (02:53.858)
Mm hmm. And it, the short story is, I’ve, I’ve always loved hearing people’s stories, right, since I was a little kid. And journalism was sort of a natural, I think, first career for me, because I just got to follow my curiosity and ask lots of questions. And

and sort of find the story behind the story and bring that story to other people. I’ve always also been very entrepreneurial. I think it runs in my family. My family is a long line of entrepreneurs and self-starters. And so I think I was fascinated by all these people who are building their businesses. And that’s how started. I was a business journalist in San Francisco. My first job was actually as a FDA reporter, but that’s only because that’s

Park Howell (03:47.198)
FDA doesn’t get any more exciting than that.

Renee (03:48.686)
FD, no more exciting than that. Yeah, that was my very first job out of college. I was just grateful for the experience. I got to be on Capitol Hill. So there were definitely some stories that came out that too.

Park Howell (03:54.647)
Absolutely.

Park Howell (03:58.83)
Well, that’s cool. And you had kind of an interesting way to coax stories out of your sources that maybe someone, you know, as new to the journalism world may not have had the guts to do or or maybe maybe the insight to do. Could you share what you did?

Renee (04:13.409)
Hmm.

Renee (04:18.882)
I followed my curiosity. And I just didn’t assume that I, well, I was young, right? So I never assumed that I knew more than anybody else. And I really wanted to understand their perspective on something as I was sort of shaping my own in all these areas. And I just learned to ask really good questions that went beyond surface level. And essentially it’s like,

but why does that matter? And so what? And so what then, right? And it’s kind of like that first order, second order, third order thinking where you ask, and then what? And why does that matter? And you really get to a little bit more depth and meaning and an interesting nuance of perspective, right? And so I think that was really my strategy. And then also sometimes, honestly, I just kind of played dumb a little bit.

Park Howell (05:14.414)
How so?

Renee (05:15.234)
I’ll give you an example. before I landed in San Francisco and, and started reporting for the business times, I, on this around the world trip, I, I wanted to try my hand at freelancing for the first time and see if I could really build a freelancing career. And, one of the places I ended up on this around the world trip was Ecuador. And Ecuador is, you know, really has, has built a reputation around, you know, being,

a place for biodiversity where you come to do ecotourism and you go to see the Galapagos and they have this whole story around being a little bit more forward thinking in terms of preserving the environment and being a place for you. So I landed there and I was volunteering at this bio marine research nonprofit where I was getting to go on a boat to

to an island where I like literally hand counted how many blue-footed boobies there were on the island to I actually don’t even know what the research was was for these aren’t tourists now this is yeah yeah yeah they’re a type of bird uh it’s going extinct um um I was on the beach once and I noticed that all these sharks were coming up on the shore and and these fishing boats and I knew that there was you know

Park Howell (06:21.09)
And these aren’t tourists, right?

Park Howell (06:27.608)
Sorry about that.

Renee (06:42.594)
shark fishing, shark finning was illegal. But I also knew at the same time that shark fins were like a delicacy, especially in places like China and Hong Kong. And there was a big market for it. But I knew that this was illegal. And so just kind of started playing dumb. was like, huh, well, that’s a lot of fish. That’s a lot of sharks that are coming up on the shore. What’s that about? Well, if they get caught in your net,

you know, there’s a certain amount that you can, you know, okay, but like, why do none of them have their, you know, and I just started, knew the answer and I knew what was happening, but I was just kind of playing dumb and then like, I’m just curious as to what I’m seeing here. ended up writing a story that got published in the BBC about this and, and then got a very official government letter saying it was unwelcome in the country again for like exposing this thing, but.

Park Howell (07:30.862)
Mmm.

Renee (07:40.13)
That was almost 15 years ago. Yeah, I don’t know. think maybe with my, I’m sure I’d be able get in at this point with my passport or maybe it was just a threat. You know, they didn’t.

Park Howell (07:40.27)
They actually tossed you out?

Park Howell (07:48.258)
Well, that’s…

That’s impact too. And some of the notes that I read in preparing for our interview, another tactic, and correct me if I’m wrong, but what I gathered out of it is that you would show up as just yourself, not a journalist, and you would be sharing a lot of insights in who you are, so you are actually befriending these sources. Is that right?

Renee (07:58.146)
Mm.

Renee (08:03.211)
Yeah.

Renee (08:11.35)
Yes, that definitely as I matured a little bit in my career as a journalist, and that’s definitely something that I’ve brought into building my business now is yeah, really trying to make that personal connection, that relatability, because it’s just a basic principle of communication. I don’t know if you’ve had the author of that book, Super Communicators, what’s his name? Have you read that book? It was really popular.

Park Howell (08:36.588)
I haven’t. No.

Renee (08:39.618)
Last year, I think it was one of the best sellers. He’s a former journalist as well, and he wanted to find out what makes people, these people, these super communicators that are able to get things out of people that nobody else is. It’s like CIA agents are super communicators, right? Like really effective podcast goes. And one of the pieces is that they openly share, reveal a piece of themselves and therefore open up a space.

um, an opportunity, a safe space for someone else to share, share something personal in return, right? Um, mm-hmm. Yes, yes, yes.

Park Howell (09:17.806)
I just looked it up while you were talking. That’s Charles Duhigg. D-U-H-I-G-G. So, okay, just for the listeners out there, super communicator. I’ve not read it, so I’ll have to look that up. But what you’re talking about is do something that connects. And you know, my wife and I were just listening to Matthew McConaughey’s new book called Greenlights. And of course, he’s a phenomenal writer. And he has pulled from like 35 years of journaling.

Renee (09:38.794)
Mm. Uh-huh.

Park Howell (09:47.45)
And then has created this book out of it. And of course he reads it. So we were listening to it, driving up from Phoenix the other day. And he told a story that is what you’re talking about, I think here. And it was when he was in high school, his mom had gotten, was kind of like mixed up in this MLM and she wanted him to use this product on his face to help cure his acne when he was like a sophomore in high school. But it did just the exact opposite.

inflamed it, he looked horrible, the doctor said he was going to be scarred for life and his dad was a very industrious con man in some ways that he talks about and he goes, son, we’re going to make a fortune off this. They found an attorney and they went and sued the company and of course as the case happens it took a couple years and Matthew’s telling this whole story is just brilliant.

Renee (10:40.556)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (10:42.102)
The day when he has to go and see the defense counsel, he has just graduated from high school. He’s sitting down, of course, his face wasn’t wrecked, but that’s what their contention was. And that as he reads it, as he tells it, this counsel said, hey, Matthew, how are doing? You know, yeah, I’ve got a son that’s roughly your age. Boy, that must’ve been really scary in what you went through and just totally befriended Matthew. And he’s like, just like, boy, this guy’s great. This is going to be a, you know, a cakewalk.

Renee (10:50.306)
Mm.

Renee (11:11.906)
Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (11:11.924)
And then the defense attorney, right when he has completely disarmed him, Matthew pulls out the annual, the book, you know, and shows a picture of Matthew and this woman next to him named the most beautiful and most handsome couple in the high school. And right then he goes, I don’t think we’re going to make any money from this at all.

Renee (11:17.969)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (11:31.264)
Yeah

Park Howell (11:38.292)
and his dad was crestfallen that he blown it like that. with what you’re talking about, that’s exactly the story in a way he shared it. The defense counsel befriended him and then got in under his skin.

Renee (11:41.57)
Hmm

Renee (11:46.814)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s, know, I, yeah. And I would caution people not to use it manipulatively, right? But in some ways, I can’t use it for good, exactly. And so, I mean, you know, story can definitely be used and is often used for evil and not good, but.

Park Howell (12:01.824)
Right. Use it for good and not evil.

Park Howell (12:12.13)
Yeah. Now, just take a look at our current administration. They weaponize it every single day.

Renee (12:17.845)
They do have a nice story. They’re very effective storytellers. They’ve been able to tell a very powerful story. And that is the thing about stories, as you know, they don’t necessarily need to be true. They just need to be believable and emotive. So, yeah.

Park Howell (12:25.206)
Yeah, yeah.

Park Howell (12:32.782)
Emotive exactly right. So why did you and how did you move from journalism into business in story coaching?

Renee (12:42.978)
Um, yeah, I basically got a little burnt out on deadlines and the whole media landscape was shifting as I was entering the field, right? I mean, it was, it was completely transforming because of social media. And I recognized that the traditional

keepers of information, the traditional media structure was completely crumbling. And anyone could build their own little media empire. Any brand could control the story and the narrative and create, know, become influential doing this. And so I sort of, I became interested in how people were doing that and how I could maybe build my own little media.

empire and not have to rely on traditional, you know, the traditional structure to get ideas across and to tell people stories. And so I was also very interested. I was in San Francisco reporting. of my main beats was restaurants and retail, and I got really into the food scene. And so I thought, well, I could do this. And my first foray into online business and brand building was a food blog.

Park Howell (13:58.221)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (14:06.294)
So I started with a food blog. built a social media audience. kind of understood a little bit of business and brand building through that. but I didn’t stick with it because I got, I got bored just talking about food all the time. I felt like there were so many more stories to tell and I wanted to follow my interest in so many other areas. And, and so that’s when I kind of, I translated that into really into content marketing and then brand building, is branding is just.

learning how to tell a good story, right, is owning your story and effectively communicating that story to an audience, creating a community of believers and people who feel like they belong, you know, in your little world, your little brand world that you’ve created. And that’s essentially how I ended up here.

Park Howell (14:58.83)
And so tell us a little bit then about how you arrived at this idea of your story is your strategy and you’ve got a framework that people can follow.

Renee (15:08.658)
Yeah. well, I think that it was because branding, branding and brand marketing and content marketing has just become so complicated. know, marketers ruin everything. They just overcomplicate it and add more detail than necessary and strategies and frameworks and

so you never really went down the whole SEO path and thank goodness, I’m glad I didn’t like build my career around that because that’s, you know, evolving.

Park Howell (15:40.374)
got, I’ll tell you, Renee, that’s what drove me out of advertising. I started in the traditional fun times, then once you got into digital marketing and SEO and ugh, my brain’s not wired for that. Yes.

Renee (15:42.818)
Right? Fun!

They make it less fun. They make it less fun. And what I think I realized in trying to develop my own framework, make sense of all of this and just build powerful, effective brands was what has never changed. Right? Like the principles and foundation of like effective brand building that will never change, that will never evolve even with AI and the algorithms is

is the principles of storytelling and human psychology, right? So if you can understand basic human psychology and how to tell a good story, right? Then that is your whole strategy. You don’t need more strategy than that. That is the strategy. And so, yeah, I work with a lot more personal brands now, service-based business, entrepreneurs like you and I, her building her businesses. I still work with some traditional startups, but it’s the same process.

It’s first getting very clear on your mission, your vision, right? The vision of the world that you want to see that ultimately that’s what you get buy-in for. And that’s what you build a community around. We are going against the status quo or the way that things have always been done and creating a new future. So it’s getting very clear on that. then sort of the rules of your world that you’re building. So those are your values, the things that you stand against, the things that you stand for.

who belongs in this tribe and who doesn’t, right? How do I identify? And then it’s getting very clear on the things that your audience cares about, right? Really getting digging into the psychographics, their fears, their goals, their desires, the impact they wanna have on the world. So it goes beyond just what’s their problem and what are the buying triggers.

Renee (17:37.282)
And then it’s finding the intersection of those two things. So where do our mission, where does our vision, where do our values, where’s the story that we’re telling for the future that we want, where does that intersect with the things that matter to you and that you care about as our ideal customer audience? That’s the story, right?

Park Howell (17:55.726)
Well, Renee, give us an example of how you’ve done this with someone and where maybe they were floundering or they just didn’t have the growth that they wanted to. And then you came in and through your story as a strategy framework, built it. And what was the outcome?

Renee (18:10.568)
Yeah. well, let’s see, which, what’s the, what’s the best example? And the most recent, so I’ve been working a lot with one-on-one with people and I decided, you know, I decided to give this a try as a group. So I launched my first cohort, my experimental cohort. And I mean, I’m the best case study. I sold this thing with one LinkedIn post. I said,

Park Howell (18:16.814)
You

Renee (18:37.386)
And after a year of brand building, said, I’ve been thinking about doing a group cohort to teach short form storytelling to grow your business and your brand. Anyone interested? That got me on 25 sales calls and they closed six, which was the perfect test group for my first little cohort. So I got six people in this cohort. I literally was building the plane as I was flying it. Yeah.

Park Howell (18:58.19)
Let me ask you real quick, Renee, so you’ve got 25 on there, which is a great return on a little story on LinkedIn. You closed six. Why do you think the other 19 didn’t sign up?

Renee (19:05.867)
Yeah, and a little.

Renee (19:13.792)
Well, it, part of it was, it was really a quick turnaround. said, I’m launching these things within a certain date. It was three weeks from that. I, it was a kind of a, a strict timeframe to it was like, we’re meeting on Mondays and when you’re meeting at Thursdays at this time. and that was hard with some people’s schedules. So some people just couldn’t fit into their schedules at that point in time. They felt like they were going to miss too many live sessions where they knew a lot of the.

Yeah, the good learning was gonna happen. And then cost was an issue for some people. So I only charged $850 a pop, which I thought was pretty good for my beta round. And the people that did it knew that they were gonna be giving me just as much feedback as I was and learning.

Park Howell (19:51.086)
Would you charge for it?

Park Howell (19:55.362)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Park Howell (20:06.306)
but you give them a ton of value in the process.

Renee (20:08.006)
I gave them a ton of value in the process. Now everyone came out so happy, so happy in fact that they want me to spend it into a more evergreen community so that we can stay in community and continue learning with each other. So I’m working on that.

Park Howell (20:18.86)
Yeah. You know, real quick on that, you did something really smart, I believe, from a book that I read called The Right It. When you’re trying to roll something out and trying to determine is there a market for this or not, instead of just giving it to them, that then they’re grateful that they go through it. And when you ask for feedback, you don’t get accurate feedback because they don’t want to let you down since you gave it to them. But by having them vested in it,

Renee (20:27.362)
Mm.

Renee (20:43.209)
Right.

Park Howell (20:47.658)
and you providing tremendous amount of value and in return ask them for their input so that you can fine tune it. And I’m sharing this with you and with all of our listeners because we did the exact same thing and I pulled it from that book, The Right Hit, for the launch of our Storycycle Genie. And we had 20 beta testers and they each paid $500 to be a part of it. And people, just came from a coffee as a matter of fact, and a marketer guy.

Renee (21:04.976)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (21:15.534)
said, you can’t just keep giving it away. And I go, well, we didn’t give it away. We didn’t charge them $500. And he goes, wait a minute, you had a beta test? And they paid you to be participants? And I said, but we gave them a tremendous amount of value for that $500, not only from what they got from the genie, but then individual calls with me, like with you and your cohort, that we coached them up. And while I was coaching them, then in return, they would give us the input on the.

Renee (21:21.568)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Amazing how that works.

Renee (21:36.204)
Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (21:42.636)
the genie. I think you did something really smart with your initial beta cohort there.

Renee (21:45.633)
Yeah.

Renee (21:49.002)
Well, I appreciate it. And that is our approach. A lot of my marketing is just a series of experiments, right? Let’s test this out. Let’s test this out with a small sample size before going all in or spending months on the strategy or the branding, you know? Yeah, I threw up a pretty crappy little landing page for it. you don’t have to overthink it.

Park Howell (21:54.988)
Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (22:08.782)
But to your earlier point, you don’t have to overthink this stuff, folks. Have a good offering. Solve a problem for people. People will buy clarity over creativity every single day. Yeah. So can you give us a short little taste of what that training is? Again, going back to your story is your strategy for our listeners right now. What could they do?

Renee (22:17.073)
Yes. Yes.

Renee (22:24.212)
I agree. I agree. So.

Renee (22:30.274)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (22:38.094)
in this story as your strategy framework. What would you tell them to do?

Renee (22:41.326)
Mm hmm. Okay, so first get clear on those things, right? What am I going towards? What’s my mission, vision, values? What does my audience care about, deeply care about, right? Where can I find some stories that intersect with what is the emotional driver behind that problem and where maybe I’ve had a similar struggle?

with the same base emotional driver, right? Like, was it fear? Was it shame? Was it fear of loss? Is it confidence? Is it clarity? Like, what’s the problem? And what are you feeling that you can then tell a resonant, relatable story? So that’s like the sort of the first piece. Then it’s really sharing your process as you are.

thinking through it as you’re as you’re building it as you’re doing it, literally building in public right sharing your your struggles as much as your wins and creating those points of resonance and relatability. noticing every day noticing it not only what is happening in your life and how you can make meaning out of it and how you can tie it back to your business but what’s catching your attention online? What are you reading?

what industry trends are you seeing and how can you make meaning and make sense of that for your ideal audience? Because ultimately I think that’s where we’re going now. As everyone has sort of stated at this point, with AI now being the expert and being able to pull expertise, the people who are really rising to the top and standing out in this sort of framework

heavy world are the people who are helping us make sense of it all, make meaning out of it all, reminding us, you know, help helping us figure out what it means to be human and how to connect with other humans in the process and really looking at trends and culture and what’s shaping our industries and where we need to be placing our bets, essentially, right. So I think meaning makers.

Renee (24:57.218)
As storytellers is probably one of the most relevant skills that’s going to help you build your business as everything is evolving, you know?

Park Howell (25:10.278)
This isn’t anything new because, you know, since our ancestors navigated and survived the savanna 300,000 years ago, they were using stories as meaning making tools, as learning tools. It’s ultimately the very first learning tool we homo sapiens ever had. And that’s what has made us the fastest growing, most invasive species ever, because we think, plan, organize, enact and story.

Renee (25:36.553)
Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (25:36.822)
And just because the bots have shown up and people are freaking out about AI and whatever, it is that meaning making machine through not just the content you get, but how you evoke the emotion and connect with that person across from you. And I had a Guarva, I’m gonna butcher his name again, Pachacharya.

Renee (25:52.918)
it

Renee (25:58.146)
Mm. Mm.

Park Howell (26:01.31)
on a couple of weeks ago when we were talking about AI and he said the thing that will never change, and I really love this, the thing that will never ever change in the human experience with AI is that people want to be heard.

Renee (26:07.148)
Mm.

Renee (26:17.249)
Yes. Right. And a bit, it’s so much easier said than done. Right. And I think this is where people struggle. It’s like, how, how do you, how do you help someone feel heard or feel seen? And, and the biggest struggle, the biggest challenge is, really being able to name the thing that people are feeling, but, but, but wrap it up in your own experience. Right. And that feels

like you’re exposing yourself. That feels scary. This is where the whole vulnerability piece comes in. And I’ll give you an example that really resonated, I think, with my audience recently is I, you know, I’ve been pretty successful in building my business, but it doesn’t mean that I still don’t have those emotional dips and ups and downs that every entrepreneur does, right? Maybe not so much you, Park, because you’ve been doing it for much longer than I have, but

Park Howell (27:12.753)
God no, even after 40 years it still haunts me.

Renee (27:13.474)
But even see even after 40 years and and it’s so I mean, it’s it’s it’s such a relief and it’s so inspiring to hear you say that that even after 40 years you still have these steps and so I talked openly about this the other day I’m like, know, I I had one of those moments where I was just like I don’t know if I know what I’m doing where I’m going with this Am I gonna be able to make money next year and it was all triggered because I bought a new car and so I had these new car payments, right and I

Park Howell (27:39.842)
What’d you buy?

Renee (27:41.44)
bought a Mazda CX-90, which is a big car, more than I actually needed, but I’m an easy upsell. I went in all on my own. I don’t know anything about cars. And usually I would rely on my ex-husband to do this kind of thing. But I was like, yeah, I’m a strong independent woman now. I can do this on my own. But I don’t know anything about buying cars. I make rash decisions under pressure. The guy sold me on a story. And I knew what he was doing. I see what he was doing. But I was like, I’m buying into the story.

And he upsold me on this car and I drove off the line and immediately had buyer’s remorse. But I think what it was, was I was already like in one of those like sort of dips where I was unsure of my next step, you know? And that just triggered like a whole emotional avalanche of like, am I gonna be able to make these car payments? Is my business gonna work? And so I started Googling jobs, right? I like went on LinkedIn and I was like, who’s hiring for a content marketer? And then I was, and you know, and like,

Park Howell (28:35.874)
You were catastrophizing.

Renee (28:40.662)
I have a very supportive, wonderful partner now. He’s a teacher. He’s very grounded. he said, Renee, you know have these episodes like once a quarter and you’re very busy this week. Is looking for full-time jobs really the best way to spend your day? And I was like, you’re right. All right, let’s focus on the things I can focus on. Let’s get this done. I wrote this story in my newsletter and about 10 people responded. I’m like, can’t, yeah.

You look for jobs too sometimes. It was just, thank you for naming that. I thought I was alone. I helped people feel seen by sharing this very real story because I’m not the only one that experiences this. Even after 40 years, we still have these moments. And the more I think we can just show up honestly like that, the more we really help.

people feel seen and don’t damage our, I didn’t damage my credibility in that. just, I think I made myself more trustworthy and more likable, you know, and more relatable. And therefore, you know, no one’s not going to hire me because I’m having these doubts. And if they decide they’re not going to hire me and are judging me for this, then they’re not, they’re not someone I’d be wanting to do business with anyway, right? They’re not someone I need in my tribe. So I, I try to.

encourage people to remember this and just say, take that first step. Just put you put something out there that feels a little bit unsafe and see how it feels, right? See how it lands.

Park Howell (30:18.658)
Well, just like you do with your beta group. put it out there. If I did this, taught you about short stories and building your business, would you be remotely interested? And had 25 pings on it. That’s pretty dang good. And I think maybe you and I are at different points in our career. You obviously a lot younger, newer to the world that I am in this world. So I don’t have nearly those concerns.

Renee (30:20.566)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (30:31.646)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, this I was encouraging.

Park Howell (30:48.074)
anymore because I’ve been there, done that, seen it. put myself in some of the craziest situations you ever possibly imagine and got through it it was just fine. But I’ll tell you, you know, in my early sixties, which I am in launching this tech company with this story cycle genie AI with two really brilliant guys that are building the back end of it. I’m the front of the house there. They’re kind of the back of the house and story prompting or engineer prompting and all then.

Renee (30:48.641)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (30:56.704)
Hmm.

Renee (31:05.525)
Hmm.

Renee (31:12.554)
Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (31:17.698)
the development that goes into where the StoryCycle Genie resides in this bright sea, completely locked down platform. A lot of people would look at me and they go, what the hell are doing? Aren’t you supposed to be retiring? And I go, retiring from what? I haven’t worked for anybody but myself since 1995, number one and number two. But what do you know about AI and this sort of thing? And I go, well, yeah, that’s true. It’s my IP.

Renee (31:31.49)
Yeah

Renee (31:35.446)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (31:41.311)
Hmm.

Park Howell (31:44.814)
I’m working with two really brilliant guys that understand the AI in the back end and they have taught me a lot in the process. But I can tell you, Renee, I had every opportunity to doubt myself as I had more and more people coming to me like, what are you thinking? Why are you doing this? And I’m just like, what else am I going to do? If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. But we’ve had just tremendous feedback on it. And every now and again, I’ll wake up and I’ll go, oh, maybe they’re right.

Renee (31:55.932)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (32:01.41)
Hmm.

Renee (32:11.211)
Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (32:14.126)
you know, maybe I’m going to fall flat on my face and they’ll look at me and say, yep, time to retire. Come on on the golf course. You know, you don’t need to be starting a tech company anymore. So I hear you. It’s easy to fall into that. And I think that’s a survival mechanism. It’s our limbic brain going, oh, Renee, be careful. You’re in status quo right now. That’s safe. You don’t need a new car and all the risks that comes with that. And we all have to deal with that, but know that that’s just a natural part of being human beings.

Renee (32:14.913)
Hmm.

Renee (32:24.115)
Hmm… Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Renee (32:32.724)
Right. Right.

Renee (32:43.648)
Yep. You just have to, yeah. And it really just helps to, you can rationalize it, have the awareness of it and still feel it. And for me, at least talking about it openly and having other people say, me too, is what actually helps me get over it, you know, and, press over and push me up and move forward. So.

Park Howell (32:43.969)
It just happens.

Park Howell (32:51.404)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (33:04.076)
You’re so right. Well, we went in unbeknownst to you, of course, when we ran your brand through the story cycle, Genie. And I know you haven’t really had a chance to look at it too much, but I wanted to read something in your company. Your brand is a good reputation. Right. What number one, why and how did you land on that name, that brand for you, for what you provide?

Renee (33:11.265)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (33:19.778)
Yep.

Renee (33:29.634)
because I just, it was so, just came to me. And I was like, what are we all doing here? What is brand? What is story? What are we all trying to achieve here? What gives me flexibility to grow into it? And I was like, we’re all just trying to have a good reputation, but not just a good reputation and not like people think of us, think highly of us. But I really wanted to focus on people building good businesses.

for the greater good, right? So originally I had an interview series where I was interviewing founders and focusing on like their one approach that they felt, their one differentiated approach that they felt really led to the success of their business. And I got so many things, Park. got, you know, I really leaned into unscalable things. Or I was brutally honest. Or I interviewed…

500 people before launching my first product. There’s always something interesting and different. But these are people that are really building something, I think, behalf of the greater good and for humanity and not just to make lots and lots of money. A deeper purpose behind their work. So that was sort of the origin of the name. Double meaning. Yeah.

Park Howell (34:41.25)
Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (34:47.01)
Gotcha. So we pulled it up and this is my little secret weapon now whenever I have a guest on. I know you fill out all the bio information and give me story points, whatever, which I love. Thank you very much. But this also takes me on a deeper dive into your brand and what you’re about. so and you were talking earlier about these these emotional triggers, these buying triggers, which sits right at the top of our overall story cycle system.

Renee (35:01.922)
Mm.

Renee (35:08.852)
Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (35:14.122)
And it named three primary audiences for you, the number one being mission-driven startup founders. Is that what you’re looking for? Mission-driven again kind of plays to a good reputation. They’re in it to do good while making money.

Renee (35:19.33)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (35:30.248)
Mm hmm. Yes. I still do work with mission driven founders, but I realized that a lot of, yeah, I kind of have two separate businesses and two separate marketing arms. And one of them is really heavily relies on networking and public speaking and doing workshops and really capitalizing on the fact that I’m in the Bay Area and in this world.

Park Howell (35:57.634)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (35:59.382)
But really my whole online persona has sort of shifted to really focusing on these other founder, these, these other entrepreneurs, service based business owners. just because it’s so much easier to talk about building my own business and attracting that audience, you know? and I also just understand their business model a little bit more since I’m not really in the startup founder space, trying to raise capital and talking to investors and.

Park Howell (36:15.895)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (36:28.61)
It’s a different world with a different set of issues.

Park Howell (36:31.256)
So your position statement again, as the genie pulled from your website is something to the point of a good reputation transforms mission driven founders and businesses into compelling authentic brands by uncovering their existing stories and translating them into strategic narratives that build trust, attract investment and drive meaningful connections.

Renee (36:55.284)
Yeah, that’s still true. That’s true. Yeah.

Park Howell (36:57.102)
still true. Is it missing something though? Is it missing something from the networking side or the speaking side?

Renee (37:06.862)
I think what it’s highlighting is a struggle that I’ve always had with having two distinct audiences, right? I think this is something that a lot of business owners struggle with, know, having audiences that have different needs, wants, desires, and where I’ve, yeah.

Park Howell (37:25.834)
Well, let me ask you this then. Okay. So you’ve got, you are a single individual. You, your enterprise is you in your capabilities and you have two distinct audiences. What do they have in common? What is the one problem that you are solving for both audiences?

Renee (37:33.866)
Yeah.

Renee (37:41.034)
That’s, yeah.

Renee (37:45.826)
they struggle to tell a consistent narrative. They struggle to stand out. they struggle to resonate, and also don’t know how to get more reach, through their content, how they’re through how their brand, you know, shows up in the world, shows up on the internet. so that is a consistent.

Park Howell (38:11.342)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (38:14.686)
Yeah, that’s sort of the intersection. But I do believe that the more, you know, it’s easier when you can be crystal clear on the audience that you’re serving. It’s a way easier business model, right? Because you can speak more and more nuance to the issues that are top of mind.

Park Howell (38:30.861)
Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (38:39.436)
Well, let me ask you this then, Renee, of the two audiences, which one makes up 80 % of your business?

Renee (38:46.642)
it has shifted in the past year. Now it is more service-based entrepreneurs. And so I, I’ve, I have been working on shifting my positioning and branding to reflect that, I haven’t, it’s more behind the scenes than, know, yeah. Yeah.

Park Howell (39:03.286)
Yeah, and so that’s what the Genie can do for you. It validates what you’re already doing well. So like your position statement, you’re saying, yeah, yeah, that’s pretty close. But then it also reveals the gaps or the missed opportunities like, I need to dial this in a little bit more because yes, it’s accurate, but it’s not specific now to what I do. And then it inspires, you know, provides inspiration. In this case, the UVP gave you, let me pull that up again here.

Renee (39:13.769)
Mm-hmm, right.

Renee (39:23.222)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (39:30.256)
Mmm, yeah.

Park Howell (39:32.61)
Here’s your unique value proposition, It Believes, from what it read is turn your mission into momentum through authentic storytelling.

Renee (39:39.83)
Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (39:41.888)
And now that’s just a start. That’s not like the end all, it’s something that you could potentially, if you liked it, start working with and start bringing then your own voice to it and tweak it a little bit here and there.

Renee (39:52.736)
Yeah, yeah, I think, I think probably the main differentiator, what I really help people encourage people to do is really tap into that personal storytelling source and do that strategically in their content. So you’re not just, you know, man, like, well, this is what I had for breakfast and this is what it taught me about B2B sales, right? Which is not effective.

Park Howell (40:02.422)
Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (40:08.332)
Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (40:17.974)
Yeah. Well, you had talked about then this new audience for you, the people in the service business. How do you define service businesses?

Renee (40:23.376)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (40:26.914)
service business, professional service businesses. mean, service business. Yeah. So it’s, it’s, it’s a lot of other marketers, writers, therapists, coaches. I’ve had, organizational change, leaders. I have worked with, I’ve worked with realtors. I’ve worked with, financial advisors.

Park Howell (40:29.826)
professional services. All right.

Renee (40:56.554)
So all professional services.

Park Howell (40:59.662)
Yeah, so what something that came to my mind, you can throw it out. You can leave this show right now. You can say, Park, that’s the stupidest thing I ever heard. Playing to that service business is what you really do then is how you help them put their own stories in service to their business.

Renee (41:03.683)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, let’s do it.

Renee (41:16.436)
Yes, no that’s good. I do like that perk. You’re good. Have you done this before? Yeah, yeah, I like that.

Park Howell (41:20.058)
playing off the service business, but only 40 years worth. But this idea of again, working through the story cycle, Jeannie is like, okay, does this, does that, yeah, that’s right. Yep, that’s good. No, that’s kind of changed here and whatever. And now when we boil it down in front of you listening out there, if you have two distinct audiences, which we all want three or four or five, we think that’s how you build a business. It’s not. You focus on one.

Renee (41:45.674)
No, focus on one. Yeah.

Park Howell (41:47.896)
Just ask yourself, it’s the Pareto principle. What one persona makes up 80 % of your business and you will never go wrong with that. So it might even be, Renee, at some point you have to start saying no to that other persona, that other customer group that you used to service because you’re so focused on this one professional services firm, helping them put their stories in service to themselves.

Renee (41:55.074)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (42:00.61)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (42:09.612)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah, your story and service to yourself. I like that. I like that play on words. Yeah, I wonder park. Uh-huh. Good.

Park Howell (42:20.824)
Well, it’s also talking about storytelling is latent, right? It sits there. We have and you do such a great job of uncovering and revealing these stories or showing people how to do it and then bringing them to life. And when they tell the stories in a vulnerable, authentic way like you do, they’re going to grow their business.

Renee (42:31.35)
Yeah.

Renee (42:36.904)
Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. Well, I loved it. I’m wondering if you’ve ever struggled with this sort of choosing an audience problem. it’s, for me, it hasn’t been because there’s opportunity and more in one place than in the other. It’s more just my, I’m a multi-passionate creative entrepreneur. And I just, I get bored, you know, that’s why I got bored with my food blog. And so I wanted to make sure.

that my audience is diverse and solving a diverse set of problems in diverse industries. And I know if I niched into say just coaches, I could probably be a lot more successful because I’m so clear in who I’m talking to and the problem I’m solving, but I know myself and that’s boring. And also everyone can benefit from the problem.

Park Howell (43:23.608)
Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (43:27.672)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (43:32.546)
that I’m solving. So, but I’m curious to hear if that’s something that you’ve struggled with or if you’ve always been pretty clear.

Park Howell (43:37.262)
Oh, yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, never. I wasn’t clear until I actually closed my ad agency. So I ran Park & Co. My wife and I built it over the course of 20 years in Phoenix. We launched it in 1995 and it was fun the first 10 years, traditional advertising, so forth. Creativity, fun, interesting stuff. And then digital, the digital world showed up and I was confounded by it. I go, what?

Renee (43:45.397)
Hmm

Park Howell (44:05.452)
I didn’t believe in it. Our clients asked us to start buying a lot more digital stuff and we didn’t know how to do it. I didn’t think their money was being well spent, blah, blah, blah. And so we were for survival. mean, we also went through the global recession in the late 2000s, odds, and that impacted us greatly. We had to lay off a number of people and then it was like survival mode. I got to be all things, all people just take whatever business.

Renee (44:14.763)
Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (44:33.226)
I could at the time, which was a stupid thing because we ended up with bad clients that were horrible to work with that didn’t pay their bills. And I like, okay, well this sucks. So what am I doing wrong? And it was because I was all over the place. We found a niche that I really, really liked and that was in sustainability and green marketing when green marketing was a thing. We were doing a lot of work with nonprofits and other sustainability groups. I…

Renee (44:36.194)
Hmm.

Park Howell (45:00.138)
even taught at Arizona State University for a time for five years as an adjunct in their School of Sustainability. And I really liked the whole purpose-driven brand thing and working on that. But I found it was still very difficult. And I thought at the core of it, now remember I was 55 when I finally got my act together. I closed my agency and people said, what the hell are you doing? Why don’t you sell it? And I said, well, because then I’ll be beholden.

Renee (45:19.444)
It’s over.

Renee (45:27.842)
Hmm

Park Howell (45:27.918)
to whoever buys it for five years, and I’m gonna lose another five years late in my career, and I don’t wanna do that. And it was not until I went through all of that that I realized my core thing like yours is storytelling. I was fascinated, absolutely fascinated by how does it work? Why does it work? How can we teach other people how to do it? And early in my life, I got a degree in music composition and theory and communications.

Renee (45:31.458)
Hmm.

Renee (45:41.238)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Renee (45:50.754)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (45:57.206)
I knew I’d never make any money as a composer. I figured I could in the ad world. I’d bring those two. Well, interestingly enough, 35 years later, I’m teaching story composition and theory to help commerce and help people become sustainable and have the impact in the world they’re wanting to make. And when I find people that are using the same framework for evil, I like to call them out and say, look, this is what’s going on, folks. This is why.

Renee (46:06.658)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (46:18.742)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (46:24.982)
the Trump administration can move the MAGA group. Look at what he’s doing with Story Framework starting with the ambit there for us. So it took me a long time and I think maybe you are just in that mode right now going through as you started your company, focusing on one audience and then like, okay, that’s sort of boring because I was in the same way too. If I worked in a lot of different industries, I won’t get bored. Well, that’s a lousy way to run a company.

Renee (46:27.266)
Yeah

Yep.

Renee (46:49.282)
It is. It’s a lousy way. Yeah.

Park Howell (46:52.194)
Get focused, be really, really, really good at one thing. And so now it sounds like you’ve got that. And then I would say for you, the next question I would ask you is, all right, for those service professionals helping them put their story and service to themselves, what excites you about

Renee (47:05.96)
Mm-hmm.

Well, what excites me is just seeing the shift for them in their own marketing and running their own business. It’s like it reignites a fire in them. They’re because I just love that the passion is contagious. You know, they’re actually they actually enjoy doing their own marketing again. They enjoy building again. I think what so often happens, you know, we all start our businesses because we want more freedom ultimately. Right. But then we trap ourselves.

Park Howell (47:19.575)
And why does that excite you?

Renee (47:39.24)
in these businesses and we start resenting them. I think this happens for a lot of people and it’s because you have to, there’s so much involved in business beyond solving that problem. It’s figuring out the business model, it’s figuring out your offers, it’s then the marketing piece and then figuring out the social media marketing piece and how it all, how you bring people in and all that. And I feel like what happens,

I don’t feel like I’ve seen this happen when I when we start grounding it again and like the purpose and then being able to articulate that purpose in a way that moves people and you start getting feedback for it. Right? You start getting all this validation because you’re it’s finally clicking for you and for everybody else. It just reignites that passion and that motivation to do it and the understanding of why you’re doing and why any of it matters. It just gives meaning to your work again.

And that is really meaningful for me. And I think I’m just one of those people that’s always like looked for meaning in my work, right? Like I need my work to feel purposeful. And so that’s why I think I’ve jumped around from thing to thing. And now I’m just like very comfortably sitting in helping others ignite that purpose and find that meaning again is very fulfilling for me. And I think just, you know,

As you know, think just becoming a better storyteller is not just great for your business. It’s great for your life. Like it has all these knock on effects of having deeper relationships, better connections, you know, making time slow down because you’re noticing the world a little bit more closely. And, and, what I encourage people is like, don’t just focus on telling better stories, but like really hearing other people’s stories.

and you’ll start to see what that unlocks for you. So ask questions, go a little bit deeper, know, share, share in an effort to have someone reciprocate with something a little bit more connected.

Park Howell (49:51.662)
So what I heard then is what really excites you with everything you said is to use storytelling and teach people how to use stories to free them from the drudgery of their businesses. So they love their business, they’re into their business, they got their business going, it might be a successful business, but they’re hating it. It’s kind like what I started not really liking my agency and running an agency 10 years in.

Renee (49:56.214)
Mm.

Renee (50:06.486)
Yeah.

Renee (50:15.532)
Mm.

Renee (50:20.598)
Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (50:20.748)
And I ran it for another 10 years trying to find my way out. And my way out was through story. It’s what, what, you know, triggered me and what got me excited about it when I can show people how to do this. And then to your point, they use it and they send me notes like, my God, I just closed a deal with using the an butt there for, or this new brand is resonating so much. I’m, you know, attracting my exact customer. That’s it. That’s so worth it because you, in your case,

Renee (50:26.368)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (50:36.14)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (50:49.846)
You are freeing them from the complexity and drudgery of the day to day logical reasoned driven business by tapping into the emotion and the passion that story brings.

Renee (50:59.682)
Yeah.

Renee (51:05.718)
You said it.

Park Howell (51:07.704)
There you go. Because I hear you. I feel you. That’s why I do what I do as well. well, Renee, this has been great. Where can people learn more about you?

Renee (51:13.566)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (51:20.416)
The best place is through my newsletter where I do share storytelling frameworks and how to build a good reputation, a good brand and enjoy the process. It’s a good reputation.online and I am very active on LinkedIn at Renee Lynn Froyo. So I’m constantly practicing what I preach on there.

and teaching through doing a lot of the time and getting a great response. So pretty much all my business is organic inbound leads. the proof is in my pudding, that’s for sure.

Park Howell (51:59.349)
Awesome.

Are you going to do another beta group, another cohort?

Renee (52:05.706)
I am I’m launching another cohort in the fall. So I’m taking all the learnings from this one and building something even better. And in the meantime, I’m forming the community, the evergreen community from the past cohort and in-person retreats that I’ve hosted. I also host annual in-person retreats for service businesses. We just came back from Mexico City and yeah.

Park Howell (52:31.283)
And people interested in that can ping you either on LinkedIn or through your contact page on your website. And then finally, now that we’ve gone through all of this is name your ideal customer. For everyone that’s listening here, who would be the ideal customer to work with you on these things?

Renee (52:33.696)
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Renee (52:46.742)
Hmm.

Renee (52:50.69)
Mm. Someone who is has set off on their own. Maybe has lost their way a little bit has lost that that fire for their business because they’re having trouble really playing the online marketing game and communicating the problem that they solve.

and would like to, yeah, would just like to connect more effectively with their audience. So anyone building a solo business that’s doing that right now for the purposes of this podcast, I think. That is my idea.

Park Howell (53:30.956)
Got you. So for an ABT for them might be so you are a successful entrepreneur building a solo business and you’ve had great joy in helping people achieve what they need to accomplish through your service based business. But you are exhausted, maybe even overwhelmed because you’ve lost a bit of the passion due to the complexity of marketing and not maybe truly embracing and understanding and sharing your authentic story.

Renee (53:35.946)
Mm-hmm.

Renee (53:49.899)
Yeah.

Park Howell (54:00.45)
Therefore, reignites your energy in your company with Renee through your story as your strategy process. And let’s put your story in service to you to have the impact in the world you want.

Renee (54:20.492)
Beautifully done. I’m going to go rewrite my about bio right now. I found that script. It’s the and but therefore, yeah, it’s one of the ones I teach too.

Park Howell (54:25.934)
It’s the end, but therefore it’s based on the, yeah, in the story cycle genie and it’s so powerful just to get that foundational narrative down.

Renee (54:36.898)
Yeah, I talk about simplifying it. It’s all ABT, right? Like if you only learn one storytelling framework, it’s that, and they all are that. are just, you know, they take different forms. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Park Howell (54:48.77)
That’s why we call it the DNA of story and but therefore well, Renee, thank you so much. This has been an absolute delight and I know you said you’ve been listening to the show for a couple of years, so it’s great to have a listener on as a guest.

Renee (55:01.588)
You were my first resource when I decided I was going to become a better storytelling instructor, not just a storyteller for my own business. So I really, I am so honored to be here, Park. I’ve learned so much from you and I just, can’t believe I got a chance to be on the show. So I appreciate, I appreciate you and your questions.

Park Howell (55:23.03)
Well, I’m delighted that you’re here. Thank you for reaching out and keep doing the great, great work you’re doing, Renee. Have a good day. Don’t leave, don’t

Renee (55:28.276)
Alright, thanks, Perk. You too.

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